DATE:              Monday; January 7, 2002                               TIME:              Commenced:  10:06 a.m.                                   Concluded:  10:15 a.m.                               LOCATION:          402 South Monroe Street                                   306-H House Office Building                                   Tallahassee, Florida                               REPORTED BY:       Laurie L. Gilbert                                   Registered Professional Reporter                                   Certified Court Reporter                                   Certified Realtime Reporter                                   Certified Merit Reporter                                   Notary Public in and for the                                     State of Florida at Large                                                                                                                                                                                ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                   100 SALEM COURT                              TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301                                     850/878-2221                                                                                         2                APPEARANCES:                                              REPRESENTATIVE BRUCE KYLE, Chairman                               REPRESENTATIVE JOYCE CUSACK                               REPRESENTATIVE PAULA BONO DOCKERY                               REPRESENTATIVE RENE GARCIA                               REPRESENTATIVE JIM KALLINGER                               REPRESENTATIVE SUZANNE M. KOSMAS                               REPRESENTATIVE DICK KRAVITZ                               REPRESENTATIVE JERRY G. MELVIN                               REPRESENTATIVE STACY J. RITTER                               REPRESENTATIVE DENNIS A. ROSS                                                              *   *   *                                                     I N D E X                                                                                                                             PAGE                                    Meeting Commenced                        3                     Meeting Concluded                       12                               CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER                      13                                                       *   *   *                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                                                      3          1                    P R O C E E D I N G S          2              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  All right.  I think we're          3          going to get started.          4              Would the Administrative Assistant call the          5          role, please.          6              MR. MAST:  Representative Cusack?          7              REPRESENTATIVE CUSACK:  Here.          8              MR. MAST:  Dockery?          9              REPRESENTATIVE DOCKERY:  Here.         10              MR. MAST:  Garcia?         11              REPRESENTATIVE GARCIA:  Here.         12              MR. MAST:  Jennings?         13              Kallinger?         14              REPRESENTATIVE KALLINGER:  Here.         15              MR. MAST:  Kosmas?         16              REPRESENTATIVE KOSMAS:  Here.         17              MR. MAST:  Kravitz?         18              REPRESENTATIVE KRAVITZ:  Here.         19              MR. MAST:  Lacasa?         20              Lee?         21              Melvin?         22              REPRESENTATIVE MELVIN:  Here.         23              MR. MAST:  Ritter.         24              REPRESENTATIVE RITTER:  Here.         25              MR. MAST:  Ross.                           ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                                                      4          1              REPRESENTATIVE ROSS:  Here.          2              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  I -- I'm here, too.          3              A quorum's present.          4              MR. MAST:  Okay.          5              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  Today -- today we're having          6          a -- public testimony on -- on proposed plans          7          from the public.  And it's -- notices were sent          8          out to all the interested parties.          9              And we have Ben Wilcox from Common Cause to         10          present their plan for Senate Redistricting.         11              And you're recognized, sir.         12              MR. WILCOX:  I guess -- I don't know -- if         13          there's a better place to --         14              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  And also, once again, if         15          you have a question or you're going to speak,         16          please state your name, because the         17          stenographer -- I'm sure she'd appreciate that,         18          and keep the record clean.         19              MR. WILCOX:  All right.  Good morning,         20          members of the committee.         21              Mr. Chairman, I'm Ben Wilcox, Director of         22          Common Cause Florida.  Thank you for allowing         23          me the opportunity to speak to you today.         24              The redistricting plan that we have brought         25          to you today is the work product of                           ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                                                      5          1          Common Cause Florida, and the Florida League of          2          Women Voters.          3              I'm not going to stand here and tell you          4          that it's perfect.  I'm sure there are          5          improvements that can be made.  But this map          6          represents our best effort to draw a          7          redistricting plan, based on the standards that          8          we have been advocating, standards that we          9          believe the Legislature should use in drawing         10          its plans.         11              The standards we used in drawing this map         12          are as follows:  The first standard is the         13          districts were drawn to be as equal in         14          population as possible.  Basically with this         15          plan, we've achieved zero deviation.         16              Number two, the districts were drawn to be         17          as compact, and composed of contiguous         18          territory as possible, and to respect local         19          political subdivision boundaries.         20              Number three, the districts were drawn so         21          as not to dilute the voting strength of any         22          racial, ethnic, or language minority group.         23              Based on the legal advice that we received,         24          we made the decision to keep the         25          minority/majority voting districts in the                           ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                                                      6          1          current plan intact.          2              While those districts are often cited as          3          examples of gerrymandering, we felt like we had          4          to maintain the percentages as closely as          5          possible in order for the plan to be legally          6          sound, and comply with the -- with the Federal          7          voting rights act.          8              And Number 4, the final standard, the          9          districts were not drawn to favor any incumbent         10          person or political party.  In fact, in drawing         11          this plan, we never even looked at the -- the         12          political history data that's contained in         13          the -- in the FREDS software.         14              So to summarize our plan, we have zero         15          deviation, we've maintained five         16          minority/majority districts in the current         17          plan, and we have tried to make the districts         18          as compact, contiguous, and respecting of         19          political subdivision boundaries as possible.         20              Thank you again for allowing me to speak to         21          you.         22              I'd be happy to try to answer any         23          questions.         24              I'd also be glad to work with any members         25          who might be interested in sponsoring all or                           ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                                                      7          1          parts of this plan.          2              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  Are there any questions?          3              Representative Dockery, you're recognized.          4              REPRESENTATIVE DOCKERY:  Are there handouts          5          so we can get a better look?          6              MR. WILCOX:  Well, it's been sub-- this --          7          this plan has been submitted to the -- to the          8          House committee.  I didn't bring --          9              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  We can get copies for         10          everybody.         11              REPRESENTATIVE DOCKERY:  Great.         12              Thank you.         13              MR. WILCOX:  I can pass these out.          14          These --         15              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  Are -- are there any other         16          questions for Mr. Wilcox?         17              You're recognized, Representative Melvin.         18              REPRESENTATIVE MELVIN:  You said you         19          maintained majority -- I mean,         20          majority/minority districts even though you         21          said they are gerrymandering.         22              Are you admitting that you're         23          gerrymandering?         24              MR. WILCOX:  Well, those are districts that         25          are -- are in the current plan that -- that we                           ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                                                      8          1          are operating under right now.          2              You know, we may not like the shapes of          3          those districts.  I mean, they're -- they're          4          not the prettiest, you know, districts in the          5          world.          6              But, as I said, the legal advice that we've          7          received since those districts have already          8          gone through the -- the courts one time, and --          9          and have been upheld, we felt like to do away         10          with those districts would put us out of         11          compliance with the Federal Voting Rights Act.         12              REPRESENTATIVE MELVIN:  A follow-up?         13              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  You're recognized for a         14          follow-up.         15              REPRESENTATIVE MELVIN:  I -- I don't know         16          how to put this question without just being         17          blunt and frank.  If it's so bad, why would you         18          approve it, rather than trying to make sure it         19          was done correctly, rather than gerrymandering?         20              MR. WILCOX:  Right.         21              Well, I mean, that's a good question.          22          That's -- and that's really something that we         23          really struggled with.         24              But in the end, we decided that we needed         25          to try to draw a realistic plan that would be                           ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                                                      9          1          legally sound.          2              We could have -- we could have drawn a plan          3          that just had really nice, you know, compact,          4          contiguous districts, nicely shaped, it would          5          look -- it would look really good, but we don't          6          think it would hold up in court.          7              So we don't -- didn't think it would be a          8          realistic plan.          9              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  You're recognized for a         10          follow-up.         11              REPRESENTATIVE MELVIN:  But you told us at         12          the beginning, that you used the guidelines of         13          compactness and lines of cities and counties.         14              So you're not doing that, you're --         15          you're -- you know, you shouldn't say that         16          you're doing it if you're going to gerrymander.         17              MR. WILCOX:  No.  It's -- the other         18          standard that I enunciated was the standard         19          that we were not diluting the voting strength         20          of racial, ethnic, and language minority         21          groups.         22              So, you know, we had -- it's basically a         23          conflict in those two standards, and we -- but         24          we felt like we had to start by maintaining the         25          minority/majority access districts, or else the                           ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                                                     10          1          plan would not hold up in court.          2              Once we did that, we -- we tried as best we          3          could to make every district compact and          4          contiguous.          5              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  Representative Ritter,          6          you're recognized for a question.          7              REPRESENTATIVE RITTER:  Thank you,          8          Mr. Chairman.          9              I'm sorry.         10              Thank you, Mr. Chair.         11              Just for your information, those -- those         12          of us that live in Broward and Palm Beach         13          County do not like to be lumped into the Miami         14          metropolitan area.         15              So if you could in the future, when you're         16          doing your maps, put maybe southeast Florida.          17          Because those of us that live in Broward and         18          Palm Beach get very unhappy when we're lumped         19          into Miami Metro.         20              Thank you.  Hate it.         21              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  I think you got it.         22              Are there any other questions for         23          Mr. Wilcox?         24              Seeing none, thank you for -- for         25          presenting your plan.  We'll make sure                           ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                                                     11          1          everybody gets a copy from the -- from the          2          committee.          3              MR. WILCOX:  Thank you very much.          4              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  Is there any other public          5          testimony?          6              REPRESENTATIVE MELVIN:  Mr. Chairman, I do          7          have one more.  I'm sorry.          8              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  You're recognized,          9          Representative Melvin.         10              REPRESENTATIVE MELVIN:  One of the -- the         11          guidelines that we had in -- in our beginning         12          was that we're going to try to get like         13          communities together.         14              I see in northwest Florida, and in some of         15          the other areas, you have lumped the         16          agricultural areas in with the beach areas, and         17          the -- so forth.         18              So that's basically one of the things         19          that -- that our committee had talked about in         20          the beginning was to make sure like economical         21          areas were grouped together.         22              MR. WILCOX:  Uh-hum.         23              Well, the problem is, if you -- I mean, if         24          you tried to draw districts that just         25          encompassed the coastal areas, then you lose                           ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                                                     12          1          the county boundaries is what we found.          2              So rather than, you know, taking that tact,          3          we've tried to keep the -- the counties intact          4          as much as possible.          5              CHAIRMAN KYLE:  Are there any further          6          questions for Mr. Wilcox?          7              Seeing none, thank you once again.          8              Are there any other members of the public          9          who would like to present a plan at this point         10          in time, or would like to comment on the plan         11          that has been presented?         12              Seeing none, if there's -- is there any         13          further business that any of the members want         14          to bring up?         15              Seeing none, Representative Dockery moves         16          we rise.         17              We're adjourned.         18              (The (House) Senate Redistricting Committee         19          meeting was concluded at 10:15 a.m.)         20                                        21             22             23             24             25                               ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.                                                                     13          1                    CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER          2              3              4              5     STATE OF FLORIDA:          6     COUNTY OF LEON:          7              I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that          8     the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the          9     time and place therein designated; that my shorthand         10     notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing         11     pages numbered 1 through 12 are a true and correct         12     record of the aforesaid proceedings.         13              I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,         14     employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,         15     nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,         16     or financially interested in the foregoing action.         17              DATED THIS 14TH day of JANUARY, 2002.         18             19                            20                            21                            22                            23                                                                                      LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR         24                   100 Salem Court                              Tallahassee, Florida 32301         25                   850/878-2221                           ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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